Tonight's Debate

Storm Shelter
61

This argument will never be settled. You either believe it’s human life or you don’t. If you do, you agree that terminating that life is abhorrent.

I guarantee that if a baby born premature was outside the womb, nearly everyone would say it’s murder to then kill the baby. But if that same baby at that point in time is in the womb, many would be ok with the abortion.

Science is so quick to point to life forms in all aspects of our world, but when it comes to the inconvenience of a pregnancy or having to take responsibility for one’s actions, we just mindlessly drone on about the rights of a woman over her body as if that living person inside of her body doesn’t also have a right to live.

Again, you either believe in right and wrong and objective truth or justify something like abortion because it makes you feel good to be empathetic or something. It’s not even about religion. You could be opposed to abortion and never have set foot in a church.

Again, it’s hard to change someone’s mind on this topic.

62

Hold on. Neither banks nor crayon makers define their authority as being holy and direct links to God. They’re companies. Do you worship at a company? It’s the authority of your religion who’s had hundreds of years of raping kids and hiding it, among other things. Yeah, I’d stop following them in that case. They claim authority of your religion and interprets, allegedly, the word of God. That’s not a bank. You’re trying a disingenuous argument on this.

63

Yeah, that’s not what atheism believes, at all. Again man, you’re not being genuine on this. Also, I think its a pretty substantial difference in that atheists typically do good for the sake of it, rather than trying to gain points to go to magicland in the sky. By definition, that’s more virtuous than the other

64

Indiana wrote an excellent post clearly stating the anti-abortion position. It is a rational statement based upon ethics espoused in many religions. However, the anti-abortion stance is unconstitutional because it infringes on the rights of women, rendering them lesser humans than their male counterparts. Furthermore, it confers rights on a fetus superior to those of the mother.

Were we to accept Indiana’s view, it would be necessary to amend our constitution, wherein the rights of men are to be held as being naturally greater than those of women or the fetal unborn.

Do we believe in equal rights or not?

65

Let’s include public schools and do it at the same time. I’m down for it.

66

Absolutely. Though, public schools aren’t a single, global institution where they have literally hundreds of years of hiding, lying and protecting the rapists. The Catholic Church does, and then tell you they are the arbiters of the word of God.
But, to my knowledge, teachers are regularly caught and prosecuted. Schools don’t spend millions trying to fight the victims, again, like the Catholic Church does.

67

My biggest issue with religion is people abuse it like everything else. I also think many people who are religious are hypocritical. Look at Joel Osteen who is a billionaire - is full of shit. God (Jesus) would never be ok with people becoming rich of faith. Also many of those same people are voting for trump. All those presenters at the Republican Convention backing a man who has cheated on his wife, was accused of raping a women and lost, has ripped people off…how can you have beliefs and support this man. I get why Bikki likes him. He is not a hypocrite admitting he is not religious. What is funny is amber rose spoke at the convention and she is atheist. I also think she did some symbol at an event with Taylor swift and storm said she was into witchcraft.

68

They had no authority to perform those crimes. Those crimes were committed because of the evil in their own hearts. God gave no such order to do the things that those perpetrators did. God never condoned those actions either. You are using that as an excuse to justify your unbelief. That in itself is disingenuous. Instead of holding the people accountable, you would rather blame the faith, when the faith if followed correctly would never result in those actions. That is disingenuous to blame the faith for the actions of men!

69

For someone who claimed to have been a teacher of the faith, this statement makes me question if you actually knew anything at all. You cannot earn salvation. It is a gift. There’s no point system to get to heaven. Doing deeds, both good and evil shows what’s in a person’s heart.

70

This is a true statement. Many people who claim to be of whatever faith they believe are hypocritical in their life. That doesn’t mean the entire faith is bad because of the hypocrisy of the people who are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Those people will get what’s coming to them. Those hypocrites, especially those in high places have done so much damage to the cause of the faith. It’s troubling that these people have shown little or no remorse. All that said, that doesn’t change who Jesus Christ is. The only thing I ask of you and people that think like you is this: Don’t blame Jesus because of the sins and crimes committed by the people who claimed they follow Him, but instead followed the desires of their own evil heart.

71

Don’t leave out the private schools.

72

SC, I have no problems with people of faith. I think everything in moderation is fine. I am Jewish, my wife is catholic…we have brought our son to both church and to temple. I have let him choose what he wants. He has faith in god.

I have a sister who has done awful things in her life. Things that honestly are far from Koshar. She has created a non profit and started god this - god that and honestly it’s straight bs. I can’t stand it. I have hired people who work for me and they say god bless while they were robbing me. If you have faith keep it to yourself. I just don’t like people pushing it on me.

73

Show me you are person of faith, don’t tell me you are a person of faith. I have no problem with that. Although in this forum, I have no choice but to tell you. I don’t, and I hope I haven’t been a jerk or a bad representative of what I state that I believe. You are 100% correct. No matter what a person says, it’s their actions that show who they really are.

74

Why would I consider you a jerk. Just because I may disagree with you does not mean you are a jerk. I don’t agree with bikki and I have no issues with him. He believes what he wants. It does not mean he is wrong.

75

No. I was saying that I hope I wasn’t a jerk or coming off as one. I wasn’t implying that you did. I was merely being self conscious about how I present myself.

76

You obviously have not been on this site long. I have been called a cunt by another poster. Been told I would have my face spit on. You are more than polite. You are a mench.

1 Like
77

Trump is listening to JD and thinking to himself why did I listen to Don Jr. Wow this guy is terrible.

78

I had to google this. :joy:
Thank you so very much. That’s very kind of you.

79

I’m starting to think that this is a very personal issue for Warden. Maybe he was an altar boy in his past or something? I don’t know.

What I do know is they’ve run the numbers…. Sexual abuse runs everywhere…. In every institution…. But in the Catholic Church, the rate of incidence is lower than in other institutions.

But because it’s linked to the largest Church in the world, people will try to execute on it.

80

Ah, right…so they had authority for some stuff, but not the bad stuff, right? Religious people are astounding to me. They claim authority from God. You don’t get to pick and choose. If your church claims authority from God and then rapes kids and hides it, it’s your entire church that’s total bullshit and conning you about your “God.”

False, erroneous. At no point have I claimed the pervasive child rapists plaguing religion as a reason I don’t believe in your religion. Not once, not in any way. I don’t believe in your religion because it’s ridiculous and I spent 15 years with the idea I wanted to teach early Christian history in a graduate level setting, but ended up on logistics somehow.

You mean like hiding rapists, like the Church did…like the “faith” did and does?

You mean like when the Bible tells of the murder, rape and pillaging at Jabesh-gilead? .

Judges 21:10-24

20 So they instructed the Benjamites, saying, “Go and hide in the vineyards 21 and watch. When the young women of Shiloh come out to join in the dancing, rush from the vineyards and each of you seize one of them to be your wife. Then return to the land of Benjamin. 22 When their fathers or brothers complain to us, we will say to them, ‘Do us the favor of helping them, because we did not get wives for them during the war. You will not be guilty of breaking your oath because you did not give your daughters to them.’”

23 So that is what the Benjamites did. While the young women were dancing, each man caught one and carried her off to be his wife. Then they returned to their inheritance and rebuilt the towns and settled in them.

Or when the Bible tells of the murder, rape and pillaging of the Midianites?
Numbers 31:10-18

10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

or in Deuteronomy 20:10-14

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies.

or Deuteronomy 22:28-29
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

or Deuteronomy 22:28-29 , or Deuteronomy 22:23-24 or 2 Samuel 12:11-14 or Deuteronomy 21:10-14 or
Judges 5:30 or Exodus 21:7-11 or Zechariah 14:1-2 ?

Your Bible and your “faith” are the worst examples of morality in human history. That’s why I’m an “unbeliever.” Because your religion sucks and is terrible and filled historically with terrible people, as with most religions. Not all believers are horrible, but the religion itself is abhorrent and caused the worst in all of human history. All of them, always.

There is no faith. There is only a construct by corrupt men who’s followers hold neither the men nor the construct responsible for anything and instead make excuses for them time and time again by somehow trying to separate what they say and what they do. It’s pathetic. The Catholic Church is the most corrupt institution to have ever inhabited even a day on this planet. You seem like a nice fella. But, I view all religion as a pure plague on mankind in their entirety.