Add in the fact we have been training their spec ops for almost a decade now. You are an idioot
It doesn’t really matter unless they’ve applied the training over and over and over again.
The reason why the US Military is elite is because we’re constantly in a theatre of war and the training is life or death.
Ukraine, Russia, China, haven’t had that benefit.
That’s why we keep ourselves at war constantly. It’s a strategy to remain at peak levels.
I’m not comparing to generational military knowledge. I don’t know why you insist on bringing it up.
How much generational military knowledge did Rome have when it fell?
How much generational military knowledge did Alexander? Han? The fucking Germans?
You can have it all and lose to. You are talking in circles about shit you have no idea what you are evening taking about. Quit fucking lying for one god damn day dude. You are a fucking embarassment
None of this is relevant lol.
And? You don’t dictate what I want to talk about. Lol.
I’m making a much broader point anyway that the Ukrainians don’t have the practical experience to pull this off either.
Which I’ve already pointed to the stands and then smashed it precisely where I said it was going.
Dude calls a foul a homer. Imagine feeling yourself so much you big up yourself when there’s nothing to big up.
So you’ll freely post an article about how Russia says the Crimean bridge is the most secure place in the world and take it at face value, but you won’t admit that an intense series of missile strikes is a response. I don’t get you.
But it doesn’t matter. Because you’re wrong. Because the freaking president of Russia said it was a response. That is how responses work.
This was always the question, and you have yet to provide any evidence for your viewpoint. Simply saying it was a black op isn’t enough, since Ukraine has capable special operators.
I never mentioned a rag tag group. From what I understand, the Crimean bridge has state-of-the-art scanning facilities on the Crimea->Russia entrance, but Russia->Crimea is a lot less guarded. No super-advanced scanners. You could call it a hole in their security plan - I certainly do.
According to Russia, a truck full of cargo had a bomb hidden in it. You can call that the most elite of special ops if you like, but truck bombs are fairly simple as far as things like this go.
Of course, the truck bomb angle could be propaganda. We’re not really sure what happened, but there hasn’t been any convincing evidence otherwise.
GSC, your example is evidence against your argument.
China’s military has made tons of strides, they have a scary size and industrial capacity, they are building ships faster than the US can, etc. Their main disadvantage is they are untested. They do not have real world experience.
Ukraine does NOT fall into this category. Ukraine had been fighting a war in the Donbas for 8 years. They have not only been training, but they have seen the battlefield. This is why a lot of the Donetsk/Luhansk militants were said to be better fighters at the beginning of the war than what Russia was fielding - because they had been on the front lines for 8 years.
Ukraine will come out of this war as one of the most (recently) experienced and equipped militaries in Europe when it comes to a land war… Even Russia is much more accustomed to fighting counter-insurgencies and fast blitzes with air superiority. Even Russia was not prepared for what this has become.
I don’t take it at face value. I have no clue if it is or not. To be Frank, some of those claims they make about dolphins and shit seem a little nuts. I’m just found it and it was the opposite of what you had said (or so I thought you said).
They’ve only existed since 2015 and they are capable huh? And now they are blowing up bridges and pipelines on their own against a super power?
I mean look- I know the Colonists beat the British and I actually agree with @djrion that any army can win any battle no matter the odds. There are so many factors at play.
But for anyone to not realize at this point that America isn’t playing a direct role in this “war” I think is foolish.
That’s cause only a fool would claim direct.
Indirect.
This is either disingenuous or ignorant.
First off, Ukraine always had special forces. As soon as they became independent, they inherited the Ukraine SSR spetsnaz. This is obvious because the Soviets had special forces and they were Soviets. Ukrainian spetsnaz fought in the Donbas war in early 2014. (For the record, that is direct military experience, so let’s not reference China anymore.)
The 2015/2016 event you reference was a restructuring of the entire Ukrainian armed forces by Western allies that put SOF into a unified command. From your article:
Ukrainian special operators regularly participate in NATO military exercises.
This extensive cooperation is said to have tremendously improved Ukrainian SOF’s interoperability and capabilities, and in 2019 Ukraine’s 140th SOF Center became the first-ever non-NATO unit to obtain NATO’s SOF certification, becoming eligible to deploy under the NATO Response Force’s umbrella.
So if you ask “Oh so they are capable huh?” then my answer is a resounding YES.
Ukrainian SOF have been declared capable by NATO years before this war started.
Finally, the Ukrainian SBU is their intelligence service. Think KGB or CIA. These guys have been around since their country was formed, and are quite capable of managing a truck bomb without the use of elite special operators.
So let’s stop pretending Ukraine has no capabilities for unconventional warfare. It is entirely possible that they are better at unconventional warfare than they are at conventional warfare. Keep in mind that everybody, US included, believed a Russian invasion would turn into a counter-insurgency. Their special forces were trained for this shit.
How many years between the liberation from the USSR to 2015 were they operational and active?
Are you changing your argument again?
Ukraine became its own state in 91. So they existed in this independent role for 24 years before being folded into a new NATO formation.
I’m simply asking you a question. Why can’t you just answer it?
I did answer it. Read again.
You didn’t. Was that unit active and operational? If so, what wars or missions were they involved in?
Ole GSCl 
wn bait n switch
Now he wants you to defend his position for him 305. Lol
Fucking clownshow
How is it a bait and switch?
I found some info so it’s a moot point.
From its inception in 1994 to 2010, members of the special unit carried out more than 7,000 operations, from weapons seizure to anti narcotics operations, to apprehension of organized gang members, with no casualties sustained.[14]
The unit suffered its first casualty in June 2014, fighting against Russian separatists and possibly, Russian special forces, in the Russo-Ukrainian War. As of 2018, ten SBU Alpha operators lost their lives in the conflict.[15]
Sounds like they did mainly intra-border police work for 2 decades until they were reorganized in 2015/2016.
Sort of makes my point for me.
Not one casualty over that petition of time which indicates extremely light work.
First off, I congratulate you for doing research on your own.
This is proven false by the very quote you cited, and by what I had told you earlier. The Ukraine Spetsnaz fought in the Donbas war in 2014. It might even be said these units were the most effective of that early war period.
But yes, Ukraine wasn’t in active war with other countries before that.
None of this history adresses the fact that NATO trained them up and literally claimed them capable in 2019. You can keep ignoring that point if you like. It seems to help your confidence in the matter.
I mean, let’s review the ridiculous moving goal post here.
1) US SOF is in Ukraine because Russia hasn’t responded.
Russia has responded.
2) Fine but it can’t be Ukraine SOF cause they didn’t even exist until 2015.
They existed since 1991, and before that as part of the Soviet Union.
3) Fine but they’re a joke. They’re not capable.
NATO declared them capable in 2019. The first non-NATO team to earn that honor.
4) Fine but they haven’t been in active war before.
Actually, they were a vital part of the 2014 Donbas war. Then NATO reorganized them in 2015 and they’ve been trained up for 7 years, during wartime. And even now, the bridge strike happened 8 months into the Russian invasion, after even more support and training by NATO.
5) [GSC is here] ???
This is how GSC argues. Man can’t admit when he’s wrong. It’s embarrassing.
You can call it moving goal posts or just the natural evolution of a conversation.
In fact, I find it funny that all of these conversations boil down to wins and losses for you.
I have an opinion that it’s US special forces. You asked why. I gave another opinion. I then gave support for that opinion and when you asked questions I gave more support.
That’s how conversations work.
Do you do this win/loss thing in real life with your friends or people on the street?
I could be wrong. I’ve acknowledged that. But I don’t think I am.