Are you telling me that the American government has never killed an American extrajudicially?
I think we’re just much better at keeping it a secret from the public. Russia’s (and other similar nations) problem is they don’t give a shit about it getting out there.
It’s not very obvious if we have, is it?
Has the country EVER done it? I dunno, you would think the odds are it happened. But is it a fairly normal thing that happens multiple times a year? I think anyone would be hard-pressed to make a case for anything close to that.
Let’s not act like we’re saints here. The Patriot Act has allowed this government to justify all sorts of extrajudicial actions in the name of fighting terror.
We are most definitely NOT saints. But your links are a bit different from what Putin regularly does.
Link #1 is about Anwar Al-Awlaki and is about justifying killing terrorists who are US citizens. Note that this is essentially an enemy combatant and it isn’t on US soil.
Link #2 isn’t even a case, it’s people asking what’s legal and what’s not. They say, “For example, the president could conceivably have no choice but to authorize the military to use such force if necessary to protect the homeland in the circumstances like a catastrophic attack like the ones suffered on December 7, 1941, and September 11, 2001.” There’s nothing salacious here.
Link #3 is not about assassinations at all. It is about collateral damage in a foreign drone strike.
So if that’s what your Googling is finding, you’re sort of proving my point.
Notable also, in the Anwar situation, did the US government deny the attack? Was the attack extrajudicial, ie. illegal? This is very different from covert "extrajudicial’ assassinations.
Without due process. So now the US government can just determine who is and who is not a terrorist and kill them? Isn’t that a violation of our rights? isn’t ever American citizen innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?
On a 3 US citizens.
Look I don’t like Islamic terrorists more than anyone, but once you’re a US citizen you have rights. There has to be some process out in place to determine IF they are terrorists and IF SO what the action/punishment should be.
They may have been right on these 3, but what happens when they start naming domestic terrorists? Can they just send a drone to our houses and blow us up? Can they wait for me to go on vacation overseas and do it the? Where is the line?
But it’s not. You’re glancing over and avoiding the actual legal issues here.
These are all great questions, GSC, and I wouldn’t try to argue against your personal answers to them because it’s a sticky mess.
BUT… the US military targeting a senior planner for Al-Qaeda is kinda what they do. This is far from a domestic assassination of a political rival.
You know, I misunderstood what the last link was. It does look like 3 Americans were targeted. The situation is a bit stinky.
That said, it speaks volumes that these killings were done through official channels, with government admission, with documents available to the press, etc. I am NOT saying the killings were justified, but let’s not pretend this is the same as what is happening in Russia.
Yea- and I’ll repeat- they probably made the right call on 3 US citizens going to Yemen and basically declaring themselves enemies of the state.
I guess my issue is, they did it without trying them publicly (I’d feel more comfortable if they did that even if they weren’t present; oresent the evidence to the public) and secondly, where’s the line? At some point some maniac in office is going to look at this as precedent to go target others. There needs to be safeguards in place.
Even shit like the illegal wire tapping. Has to be more well defined and transparent.
Giuliani had a great idea on this which is, if the FBI, or CIA, or military (government agency) believes someone is a terror threat or should be surveilled…. They should have to come to the court and then a special counsel should be appointed to defend that person to the judge.
So the prosecution shows the judge the evidence for their claim and a legal counsel is there to poke holes, if they exist, in the claim.
Some kind of system needs to be created to safeguard rights.
I’m always afraid of issues that rise to the level of national security implications because there’s always this motivation to move fast. Well, I get that feeling but there’s also the question of “are we right?” And “do we have the right”
The irony of this argument is adorable. Once again, let’s put it into context: GSC is justifying the murders by Putin of political enemies, journalists, people running against him, his own cabinet, jailing political dissidents, etc. That’s what we’re debating. In response, GSC talks about the Patriot Act, put into place by Republicans ahead of a war started by Republicans over lies by Republicans. He cited 3 sources, 2 of which he despises and are left wing civil rights organizations and 1 left wing journalistic endeavor in Mother Jones. The only ACTUAL killing cited was a 16 ur old in Yemen who’s father was Anwar al-Awlaki, the operational leader of Al-Queda.
Let’s take a look at a FEW of Putin’s assassinations
Pavel Antov- Russian tycoon who criticized the war with Ukraine. Thrown out of a window in India on his 65th birthday.
Ravil Maganov - Lukoil chairman who criticized the war with Ukraine, fell out of a window at 67
Dan Rapoport - Businessman who criticized the Ukraine war - died from falling out of a window
Mikhail Lesin - Russian press minister - blunt force trauma, founded RT and was making a deal with the FBI to protect him.
Boris Nemtsov - deputy Prime Minister of Russia under Yeltsin who became a critic of Putin. Shot four times in the back just yards from the Kremlin
Boris Berezovsky - Russian oligarch critical of Putin found dead inside a lock bathroom, strangled
Natalila Estemirova - journalist who uncovered human rights abuses by Russia abducted from her home, found with multiple gunshots to her head
Stanislav Markelov and Anastasia Baburova - human rights journalists critical of Putin shot by a masked gunman in 2009
Alexander Litvenenko - former KGB died 3 weeks after drinking a cup of tea laced with the deadly polonium-210 poisoned by GSB agents Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitiry Kovtun, ordered by Putin. Litvenenko was critical of Putin
Anna Politkovskaya - journalist critical of Putin, murdered at point blank range outside her flat.
Paul Klebnikob - chief editor of Russian edition of Forbes, who wrote about corruption of Putin and the wealthy Russians, killed by drive by shooting
Sergei Yushenkov - Russian politician critical of Putin who tried to prove the Russian state was behind the bombing of an apartment block, killed just hours after his report was recognized by the Justice Ministry
We can go on and on and on and on…but, the thing to keep in mind is how vehomently Storm, GSC, and the like are attempting to justify actions like this. These aren’t mistakes across the world in Yemen where a drone was going after a member of Al Queda and hit their son instead. These were people CRITICAL of the leader who were assasinated.
MAGA wants you to think that’s entirely okay and will go to great lengths to try and convince you. That SHOULD be all you need to know about MAGA, GSC and Storm
Does it now? You don’t appear to have that same stance when its Russia. You’re find with murdering people critical of the leader alone, and trying to use what you consider to be enemies like the ACLU to justify it.
Did he now? I seem to recall Rudy being a staunch proponent of things like the Patriot Act
I find it remarkable that you want all of this in front of investigations, while being entirely okay with Putin’s assassinations of people who are verbally critical of him. In fact, as I recall, you’re entirely in favor of the government taking over private businesses like the media.
Hilarious that Putin is STILL ragging on Tucker. Picking on the stupid American plays great for his domestic audience.
^ This post btw is what I mean about Warden putting in the work. It’s a list of political assassinations, made to consolidate power, control the narrative, and appropriate funds.
This is nothing at all like what the US does.
Look, if Putin hit Prigozhin with a drone strike and afterward declared him an enemy of the state and a traitor who was an active danger to the Russian Federation, I would have honestly respected that. I probably would have even agreed.
INSTEAD Putin shakes Prighozin’s hand, has multiple meetings with him, gives him a gift of gold, and then blows up the plane that he and several others were flying on.
It’s not the same thing.
How would we know this?
INSTEAD Putin shakes Prighozin’s hand, has multiple meetings with him, gives him a gift of gold, and then blows up the plane that he and several others were flying on.
It’s not the same thing.
Yes, it really is…It’s also the same as being a general (or whatever rank/title he held) in Putin’s army and then attempting to overthrow it.
Are they both supposed to wear a sign?
Like many aspects of life unfortunately…“Not all trappers wear fur hats”
Oh grow up
So what about the journalists be murdered, or the political opponents he murdered and jailed, or the myriad of critics who fell out of windows? Get real. You’re full of shit Skeeter.
You either are or are not defending a murderous dictator who jails and murders critics and political opponents. As it stands now, it appears you’re justifying it.
Where did I dispute them?
You either are or are not defending a murderous dictator who jails and murders critics and political opponents.
Lol…No you wack job, I’m neither defending or disputing them. I just refuse to believe he is the only one doing it, nor are any of them my problem, and although he is clearly a dangerous, violent person…do I know that these people were without fault or wouldn’t do the same to him.
No balls. No integrity. You’re showing you’re inner pussy
You already wrote 9 page responses to this moron…It was lost in the 2 day wash…No one read those either. Spare us.
Well, I shortened it now to “you’re a pussy” for the sake of brevity
…and your mother smells of Elderberries…and you have genital warts…and your genital warts have AIDS.
