Warden, I am reasonable. The only one not is skeeter. When you are transitioning from being a man which skeeter once was into a bitch which skeeter is now you see the results. I stop listening to the clown a long time ago.
305, it is his opinion that the Jews or Israelis took the land from them. I donât agree with him. I feel as do many others that the land in Israel is their land. Warden is coming at me with this idea which is from their side. The facts are that Arabs in the Middle East especially those from Palestine 
- feel that Israel and the Jews donât have the right to exist. Israelis have wanted peace with them. Israel did not attack the Palestinians during the Munich games. They did not attack them during the 80âs, 90âs and 2000âs. The Israelis have tried for years to have peace in the Middle East. They have tried to negotiate with the Palestinians. The facts are that these people donât want peace. They donât want to have Jews and or Israelis living next to them. The son of the main Hamas leader said this. They donât want it. Warden says they stole their landâŚdid the Germans steal the Jews homes. Did they take their money, gold, jewelry, art and everything else and toss them into the streets and try and wipe out an entire race of people. These are facts and the further away we get from this certain people want to rewrite history. The facts are that they will kill gaysâŚyes they will kill them. They will kill their wives if they cheat on their husbands. Women donât have rights with Palestinian men. These are facts that warden and others want to ignore. It is fineâŚwarden can post a million responses to this. I just donât agree.
This is the whataboutism weâre talking about. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
Were the Palestinians forcibly kicked out of their homes or not? This is the question.
No, they were not. The Israelis have not done that. Believe what you want. The problem is you have a group of people and this goes back a long time that lie about this bs.
You do realize that Israel goes way further back than Palestine. This is a fact. But I guess history does not exist some people. Only by a 1000 years. How can one place exist as well as certain people for a 1000 years but they threw the other people out?
Iâm glad we boiled this down. I was actually very curious as to what perspective a flat out Israeli supporter felt. Finally, youâve made it quite clear.
So, basic history - easily verifiable. The entire reason Eliteâs family were in Poliand was because in 70AD, Romans exiled ALL JEWS and destroyed the 2nd Temple. Thatâs how they ended up all over Russia and Europe. Thatâs WHY they were there for the Poles and Russians and Germans to go after. Some ended up avoiding the exile and stayed, but not very many. Even the American Jewish Council agrees. Itâs basic history. (5 Facts About the Jewish People's Ancestral Connection to the Land of Israel | AJC).
Thatâs where we start. 70AD, Jews exiled. Hereâs a map of the Roman exile from the Jewish Virtual Library. (Map of the Roman Exile (70 CE))
Notice the wordsâŚâthus beginning a two-thousand year odyssey in the Diaspora.â
Hereâs the JewishHeritage.Org talking about it.
So, nobody is disputing Jews were exiled in 70 AD by the Romans, they destroyed the 2nd Temple and ended up all over Europe, and were there for essentially 2000 years.
2000 years.
So, to start- Eliteâs premise is that the land wasnât the Arabs. It was the Jewâs land.
Though, basic history and even Jewish established history shows they were exiled 2000 years ago and didnât live there. Who moved in? Maybe some people who were already there, right? There were Palestinian Christians, there were Zoroastrians, even some Palestinian Jews who snuck around the exile and stayed. They built houses. They toiled the land. The built shitâŚfor 2000 years. Again, for 2000 years.
So, letâs start with this. Was it âtheirâ land despite not being there, not being present for 2000 years.
Well, DNA evidence (I posted in a VERY detailed summary above that is WIDE OPEN for peer review - have at it) shows the DNA of Palestinians âArabs - hint, theyâre only Arabs by language and religion, not blood, by and largeâ share more DNA with the Bronze Age Canaanites (which were the original Jews-2500-1700 BCE) than present day Jews.
AgainâŚmodern Palestiniansâ DNA matches that of Bronze Age Canaanites who lived in Palestine 2500-1700BCE. Modern Jews share at most 25% of that original DNA. Thatâs just a basic scientific fact that is easily looked up and verified. Challenge all you want. DNA doensât lie.
So, weâve got Jews being exiled for 2000 years from the land, other living there during that time and building homes, toiling the soil, all that shit. Those people who lived there ALL THAT TIME, for 2000 years, share more DNA with the original people of that land than modern day Jews, by a large margin.
So, Eliteâs premise is that it is not their land regardless of them living there for 2000 years and having more of the actual DNA of the people who lived there at the time he considers it Jewish/Israeli land.
Instead, he thinks someone like Rod Carew, the black 2nd basemen for the Angels and Twins, who converted to Judaism has more claim to that land, despite others literally owning homes there with their families, than anyone living there when his âteamâ decided they wanted it.
Thatâs literally it, itâs his team. I asked about religionâŚhe said he isnât religious. Itâs not the religion, itâs âThe Jews.â Itâs a team.
Itâs not the blood. Thatâs disproven by DNA. The Palestinians have more claim to the land based upon blood than modern Jews. Again, thatâs DNA.
His TEAM wants the land, says its their land, regardless of whatâs happened for 2000 years and despite the people who were living there for 2000 years sharing more blood and dna of the original people than his TEAM does. Thatâs the premise.
Thatâs what he considersâŚâtheir sideâ of the story.
He next states âthe ArabsâŚfeel Israel and the Jews donât have a right to exist.â Exact words.
Well, based upon his original statementâŚhis TEAM literally doesnât think the Palestinians who lived there for 2000 years donât have the right to existâŚon the land his team decided they wanted in the early 20th century.
His own words. First 3 sentences. Scroll up.
Am I misunderstanding anything to this point?
Interesting statement, considering his premise. Letâs look into it.
First, when did the Munich games happen he keeps referencing? 1972
When did Israelis kick out 85% of the population who were living in Palestine, 700,000-800,000 people?
1948.
They call it the War of Jewish Independence. The Palestinians call it The Catastrophe (Nakba).
Thatâs not disputed. Bikki referenced it earlier and tried to justify it. It was ethnic cleansing.
There exists no historian who disputes what happened, just why. In 1948, 85% of the Palestinians population was forced from their homes, where they lived with their families for 2000 years, and their land was taken. Any concept of property rights I think logs 2000 years of ownership, right? Bikki is really into property rights. Also, if the modern Palestinians who were forced out of their homes share more DNA with those original Jews than modern Jews, the people who forced them out of said homes, than can we all agree those homes they were living in before 1948 were theirs homes?
So, if in 1948 up to 800,000 Palestinians were forced out of their ancestral, yes ancestral, homes and the Munich Games happened in 1972âŚthen, couldnât it be considered that being forced out of your home by the butt of a gun and the land you lived on and toiled for 2000 years given to someone elseâŚthat it might, JUST MIGHT, be a contributing factor to the 1972 Munich games?
Am I just bicycling here? Any disputes at this point? Any points of order?
The Palestinians were definitely attacking Israel throughout that time. No doubt. All kinds of terrible shit.
But, to say Israel wasnât attacking them is incorrect.
Also, Israel was holding their population behind cement walls, behind illogical checkpoints, with no civil rights or representative government. Thatâs also a fact.
So, have they tried to negotiate? Well, by not giving them any civil rights, representative rights, while living on the land they lived in before they were kicked out by Israelis with guns, and locked behind cement walls and armed checkpointsâŚand by not acknowledging they deserve any better on any single one of those frontsâŚis that negotiating? Nah, thatâs demanding full surrender. Thatâs not negotiating.
Next to them? Wait, next to them? Are you serious? Next to them?
The entitlement is beyond believable at this point and the denigration of Palestinians as having literally ANY rights to him is like breathing. Itâs that easy. Again, just fucking WOW.
NOW, he is stating because Germans stole Jewsâ stuff, itâs THEIR RIGHT to take it from the Palestinians.
Am I misreading this? Any disputes at this point? Any points of order?
Thatâs literally what the dude wrote.
THEN, like alwaysâŚlike the Germans, the French, every single other group of people who committed genocide they now have to dehumanize the ones theyâre slaughtering.
Gotta squeeze that in, right? Wouldnât be a pattern without that.
SOâŚafter all of this, you finally explained your position and that was what I was searching for. The reason isnât to convince you. Youâre lost dude. Nobody can fight that level of entitlement and bloodlust, lack of basic humanity. That shit canât be fixed, homie.
For years, when this is brought up we get the repeated brush off of âitâs complicated.â Even I, when this shit is brought up all my lifeâŚrespond with, âitâs complicated.â But, when I started thinking about it and seeing if it was complicated with the recent genocide in Palestine and apartheid state Israel is imposingâŚI found that it wasnât really that complicated as far as I could understand. Then Elite came in and okayâŚI get to work down what this fella thinks. Itâs got to be more than this. They HAVE to have a reason or justification for all of this.
Nope. Itâs theirs because a bronze age comic book character said Team Jews own it and depsite not living there for 2000 years and sharing less blood and DNA with the people that promise was allegedly made to than the people that were living thereâŚfor 2000 yearsâŚitâs theirs. TEAM. Not religion. Not blood. Team ISRAEL has the right because they say so because the Germans were terrible to them, so they can be terrible to anyone else they want to after that.
It wasnât complicated at all. Whoâd have figured?
Why do I care?
The boomers who protected Israel and said anything they did was justified are dying.
The younger population, which is sizable and GLOBAL, doesnât think this is complicated either and doesnât blindly buy into supporting Israel no matter what they do.
Israel is genocide-ing GAZA. Itâs happening now. People are watching.
This is somehow bringing up actual antisemitism across the world that I didnât even know was as prevalent as it was this late in the game, people who just hate Jews for being Jews.
Israeli supporters are lumping in actual neo-Nazi, fascist types with people critical of Israel along with the Muslims and Arabs who have been pissed about this shit for 80 yearsâŚand calling them all Nazis, liars, Nazi sympathizers. I would have never believed this a decade ago, but there is an anti-Jewish movement growing all over the place on the planet for several reasons, most not good. But, many because of Israelâs apartheid policies and bloodlust for genocide in GAZA
The single reason Israel is there, safe and can win against anything more than Jeff Spiccoli and his shirtless crew is because the US acts like its big brother and supplies it with arms, regardless of what it does. That is changing. Look around. People are starting to not support this blind allegiance regardless of their actions. The IDF is made up of dudes who were in flip flops and pajama pants at the pool. The Mossad is badass, but they arenât an army.
The moment the US cuts off funding and stops blindly defending Israel, Israel has essentially zero chance of lasting as they are now. Zero.
The arrogance and entitlement shown by Israelâs government to the US government is wildly inappropriate. Again, Biden held up 1 shipment for 6 days and Benny screamed at our Congress and started ripping up UN treaties on TV. Eliteâs belief is they arenât going anywhere. He doesnât give one fuck what anyone else thinks, the US and young people and anyone. Fuck em. Palestinians have no human rights. Why? Jews went through the Holocaust and his team says âmineâ when they see land they want.
That, in itself, pisses people off and makes them wonderâŚis it that complicated?
My concern is Israel is driving a real bad fucking movement against them, itâs global, and the only strings they have to hold onto, that hold them from falling into an abyss, theyâre flipping the finger at.
Why does this matter to me?
When they come for you, dudeâŚbecause of your outlandish sense of entitlement and zero concern for basic human rights or property rights or even the lives of their fucking babiesâŚthe right to have babies freely and without having to watch them burn in the streetsâŚthey come for my wife, too. Her DNA is on 23andME and Ancestry. We canât hide that shit. You can point your arrogant finger and talk all you want, but history exists. Pick up a book. This shit doesnât end well for either of us.
Hope it doesnât happen in my lifetime, dude. If I have to try and shoot someone in the face to protect my wife, I hope I donât miss and I hope you get a dick in the ass because of it. She didnât justify this shit. You did.
Warden, it is a fact that the Israelis where there a 1000 years before. What part of that is not a fact. Please enlighten me. If anyone was ever forced out it was Israelis. Like I said before - keep blaming the wrong side. History disagrees with you.
You keep bringing up walls they put upâŚIsraelis would like to live their lives without people trying to kill them every day. Stop defending a group of people that donât need to be defended.
Oh it does not end well. Wait a second did Israel not get attacked and win a war in six days. Sorry but unless Iran drops a nuclear bomb on Israel which will end their existence as well - nothing is going to happen to Israel. If the Palestinians ever want peace and a realistic shot at a two state solution they better stop supporting organizations that want to rid the world of Israel. Until that happens nothing will happen. The ball is in their court. Keep allowing terrorist organizations lead you and their lives will continue to suck. Keep killing Israelis and see where that gets them.
Letâs get something straight until they want to act like actual human beings and not animals there is nothing else to discuss. I am done with this conversation.
Warden - entitled - seriously. You are trying to rewrite history. Itâs ok - you keep defending people whose only thing they want to do is rid the world or Israelis. This is a fact that you want to continue to ignore. Fact the son of a major hamas leader even agrees.
I really donât give two shits what ancestry.com says about your wife. If she believes like you do I have no respect for her. People have been anti-Semitic for years. Nothing has changed. Itâs just people like you want to ignore it. Good thing now is all those that hate are out in the open. Donât have to worry about people talking shit behind your back as they just do it to your face now.
Do me a favor and donât respond. I will do to you what I did to skeeter - put you on ignore.
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Agree with Elite here.
You can talk about events that happened 1,000 years ago and it doesnât matter.
Hamas launched an attack on Israel and brutally killed people. None of that was justified or warranted. It was disgusting. Israel has a right to defend itself and eliminate Hamas. If Hamas is being cowardly and hiding behind the civilian population, thatâs a problem. No one wants innocent people to die. But itâs war. Hamas has to be obliterated.
Except Eliteâs entire point is Israelis own the land BECAUSE of 2000 years ago. To him that justifies kicking the people out who had been living there for 200 years since.
As far as Hamas and the events going on now, I do agree that Israel has a right to defend itself.
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Indiana, I would like nothing more than there to be peace between Israelis and Palestinians. Warden does not take into account that Israel is surrounded by nothing but enemies. Iran backs Hamas and Hezbollah. This is a factâŚ
HeckâŚI have come on this site and actually defended the younger population in Iran who wants western ways. The problem is those who run Iran donât feel the same way. I have more hope that the younger population in Iran will one day over throw the leaders in Iran. Why, because the younger population in Iran actually knows what it is like in this country. Many of the youth in Iran want western ways. That is different then the mentality of the youth in Palestine which still allow terrorist to run their organization.
305, where did I say that I feel Israel should kick them out? Never said that. I am just saying that israel has been there longer. This is a fact. The problem is these people have been trying to get rid of them.
The Palestinians say they want to get rid of Jews and Israelis. From the river to the seaâŚthey could not be any clearer. Until they want to accept that Israelis and Jews are not going anywhere there is nothing to else to discuss. It is a non starter to any agreement that Israelis are going to pick up and leave.
No back and forth more for me. Thank you for your point of view. I wanted to understand the perspective and check my understanding and that was summarily completed.
Well written ^^^
(SaId by no one ever)
This cunt gonna town us all into Hamas supporters.
Because this is what youâre been defending. Iâm not talking about kicking them out NOW, Iâm talking about Israel kicking them out 70 years ago.