The "Free Will" Flaw

Storm Shelter
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The Uvalde child murderer exercised his free will and ended the lives of 19 children. Though God purportedly loves children and humanity as well, God does confer on humans free will. This is a convenient explanation that let’s God off the hook for permitting such an abominable act to transpire. Where was the free will of the 19 murdered kids? IMO, victims of wanton killing have zero free will. The same goes for accident victims. If you are struck by lightening and killed, you have absolutely no free will.

If God loves mankind, then history reveals God is a massive underachiever as educationists would say in overseeing his realm of GOODNESS. Mencken once commented that perhaps God created the world then vanished shortly afterward. Why after a grievous event do people say prayers to God who allegedly has but withholds the power to prevent evil?

I have read broadly on the history of religious belief, and I think Ernest Hemingway in his short, to the point style best explains the myths of religion and invention of gods. Hemingway wrote:
“All thinking men are atheists.” People have been commanded to read their scriptures. Thinking humans should also read Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and H.L. Mencken.

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Bikki, god only cares about the kid when they are in the womb. Did you not know this. Once these kids are born they had free will to go to the school.

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Fish, where was their free will when the bullets were flying?

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Trust me we both agree on this. I forgot which philosopher it was…he was on his death bed. The priest came in and tried to convince the guy to change his opinion on god. After he spoke to the priest he no longer believed in god either.

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This is just a logical fallacy.

If someone exercise’s their free will on you, it doesn’t mean your free will is suspended.

It simply means you couldn’t act in a way that overcame the other’s will. Your will didn’t win the day. It was there nonetheless.

Our free wills (collectively) are impeded by all sorts of things physically each day. I want to go to my neighbors yard to get the ball my kid hit over there…. Shit, he built a fence.

His fence doesn’t negate my free will. Only my free passage.

You’re too intelligent to succumb to this fallacious argument.

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A lie that is continually repeated.

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Bikki is a really smart guy but definitely gets twisted on the theology of free will.

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If the free will of a terrorist overcomes that of a child, then God is failing to deliver us from evil. God is supposed to be love, yet for millennia hate endures. God has the power of life and death but poorly and unjustly administers such power. For what should the parents of these children be thanking God? Religion and science do not coalesce, and I choose science.

I believe in ethical universals which are imparted by religions, but religion has cast a dark shadow over history. I does deserve some praise for its advancement of legal systems in the governance of men. However, it is a convenient tool of those who use it as a shield against justice, notable examples being religious terrorists.

Religion will die out since people have become more conscious of science and less persuaded by implausible beliefs. America was founded by many doubters. Jefferson wrote often toiling with his lack of faith in the existence of God. Ben Franklin also satirized puritanism and the concept of invisible spirit. . Voltaire was an outright skeptic. Religion was one of the few things Karl Marx was right about. Cotton Mather is usually cited as being America’s first intellectual, and had he not been so religiously-devoted, he likely would have been a noted scientist. Incredibly prolific, arguably America’s most prolific writer, most of his stuff is unreadable religious mental gymnastics such as contemplating numbers of angels and their preferred venues. Mather did write a piece on disease quarantine which he put into effect in Massachusetts and successfully quelled an epidemic saving many lives.

Rambling some, I love music and my tastes are eclectic. Though I a m a formidable trivia player, I know nothing about classic rock. other than the Beetles and Stones. I am a Jewish redneck who loves old country music and despises the new country music because it is monotonous and all sounds the same. I love American folk songs, Peter, Paul, and Mary and Simon and Garfunkel. Raised by the Mexican familia Gonzales, I often listen to musica ranchera. I love the songs of the Mexican Revolution. Living in Russia and having a friend who worked at the Bolshoi Theater, I had free tickets to all the ballets, concerts, and operas. Not having an English libretto, the Russian operas were a challenge. Oft times, my late wife would cry all the way through an opera. Oh, how grand it was when the Italians came to Moscow to sing. What a spectacle. I never wore a tuxedo more in my life than when I was in Moscow.

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Indiana, I bet you that Fish doesn’t give more than $100 bucks a year to charity.

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He is also justice, mercy, order, perfection, and a million other virtues. Should he ignore his other virtues for love?

Because man is in a fallen state. It isn’t God who creates evil. He simply allows it.

I’m not sure if you have children or not bikki, but there’s a good analogy to be had here. A good parent doesn’t litigate every interaction between their children. They must be allowed a bit of freedom and room for error to grow. Otherwise they’ll grow up to be psychopaths.

There was once this greenhouse project/study where they eliminated all wind and dangerous environmental elements to see how trees would respond. At first it all went great, but eventually? Every tree fell over even though the garden was an Eden for them. Why?

Without external pressure/challenges the trees roots became weak.

Humans need adversity. It’s part of our nature. It brings us closer to one another. It allows us to grow into more moral and responsible beings. It teaches us skills and lessons. Most of all it helps us to help others and to know god.

This is like saying rocks and rubber do not coalesce and I choose rocks! They have nothing to do with one another.

A religion is a ritualistic and devoted commitment to something. Science is knowledge. This is a non-sequitir.

Why do you not say “morals?” Religions don’t impart “ethics” they impart morals. Ethics apply to individuals. Morals to societies and systems.

But the broader point here is “have you ever truly examined why you admire Christian morals?” Because deep down you know they are true and binding. So if that’s true YOU MUST ask yourself why.

I’d argue that religions, if they die out as you presume, will do so because we live in an age of immediate material abundance. There is no need to hope and pray to a God for sustenance. The reason the faithful in the West pray today is because they love God. But for the selfish who believe society and technology is everything they need…. Once a calamity hits and the supply chains cease, will be back on their knees praying to the almighty to save them. This is how man is.

Selfish
Shortsighted
Arrogant
Forgetful
Rude
Ignorant

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Don’t forget prideful and deceived

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I think you give religion WAY too much credit.

These values are imparted by humans whom create religions for the masses in an effort to control the subjugated.

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Hmmm…what were you saying about personal attacks a while back?

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Um…I don’t think that’s correct. I think its quite the opposite.

Ethics appear to apply to a group of individuals provided by an external source. Morals appear to apply to individuals themselves, regarding their own principles. Morals appear to relate to right and wrong with Ethics relating to a set of values. Something can be moral but unethical, like a lawyer telling the jury his client is guilty out of his own moral obligation, but its quite unethical to do so based upon the attorney client relationship.

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I agree.

Free will doesn’t mean you get to choose how you die.

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Garden, how much is a scholarship worth…because I am responsible for probably getting 1000 players scholarships in my life. Next, I have donated more money for trees in Israel…then most of my Jewish friends. Gsc, i am willing to bet your have done more wrong in your life then I have…you hide behind god like so many others…but carry on.

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Indiana - how is it a lie. People protest every day right down the street from my house. Why don’t those same people protest the loss of life from those in Texas. I have yet to see one of these people who go nuts on an unborn child ever caring about the life of someone who actually is killed. This is the problem with people of faith…it’s all about connivence. When it fits your narrative then your all in…it’s bs

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No need to get in a pissing match over his comment. I’m sure you’ve donated to charity.

But you also categorically assume pro-life folks only care about kids before they are born. And that’s just not true.

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I really don’t care what gsc says. He does not know me. I am a giver…always give to others.

Indiana, I have never met a Pro life person that ever says anything about the loss of life once someone is already on this earth…never. All they seem to care about is some unborn kid that they don’t even know the women who is carrying it. Most pro life people like religious people are hypocrites. Every single person who has EVER said to me have a blessed day has not screwed me over later on.

Met many pro life people that have had abortions. Know one in my family.

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Sounds like you have had some bad experiences. I don’t know folks like this.

But I will say that religious or not, we are all hypocrites.