The Left eats the Left

[GardenStateCane]

@thre305ive

Worth is not derived from having been created

I didn’t say that. I said it was derived because the creator imbued you with his qualities.

I’m making an inductive argument. If God is the greatest being you can conceive, that would imply his qualities are the greatest among all living beings. If you could conceive of a being more merciful than who you thought was God, that entity would be superior and ergo, God.

So he created us in his imaged as he revealed to us. Image doesn’t mean we have similar noses or chiseled chests…. It means we have similar properties. This properties, just as they define God, likewise define us. And that is where we derive our value.

Any deviation from those values is a split from God and therefor, sinful (which if you look up the etymology means to “miss the mark” as though shooting an arrow on a bullseye target).

@thre305ive

The fact that you’re alive is worth enough.

I mean I don’t believe this. Ever swat a fly? I’m not a Janist and I doubt you are either. You don’t live this way. No one really does.

@thre305ive

I agree, but I’m not speaking on truth, I’m speaking on morality.

Is truth not, simply put, the foundation of all morality and of all values?

God Himself, Jesus, calls Himself “The Truth.” That’s how critical it is to human and divine nature.

@thre305ive

You can’t say objective morality is objective because it’s true

Yea- I’m not saying that. I’m simply making a distinction between a moral being a concept or a figment of the imagination and a real thing that can be accessed and discovered.

@thre305ive

but you’re once again comparing morals to mountains.

I only do that to provide an analogy. I’m not a platonist. I don’t believe all concepts exist somewhere in space physically and that is why we can conceive of them.

I believe these values we call morals exist as part of God’s nature and that is why we can access them and why we possess them.

@thre305ive

Now what is a term for someone who married, then divorced, then was a bachelor for a while, and then took on two wives and a pool boy?

A whore?

I kid. There’s too many prepositions to nearly define that. There’s multiple things to define there.

First he was a “husband,” then a “divorcee” and bachelor simultaneously, then a “player” and a “homosexual” I supposed. Each can be define but the conglomerate shouldn’t have its own term.

[thre305ive]

@GardenStateCane

If God is the greatest being you can conceive, that would imply his qualities are the greatest among all living beings.

I get this, and that you base your moral beliefs on this.

There are a LOT of assumptions built in here.

1. That God exists
2. That God is the greatest being that exists
3. that God imbued you with his qualities
4. That God, and you, have inherent value
5. That deviation from such is a sin

That said, I don’t begrudge you your beliefs, but that’s what they are: BELIEF.

This is, in fact, my entire point. Your moral beliefs are based on the foundation of Christianity. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But this isn’t the only worldview by far.

@GardenStateCane

Ever swat a fly? I’m not a Janist and I doubt you are either.

I mean YOU. Or humanity. It’s clear we all think we’re pretty special. I’m definitely not talking about flies and viruses.

@GardenStateCane

Is truth not, simply put, the foundation of all morality and of all values?

Not at all. I don’t believe there is a such thing as objective morality.

@GardenStateCane

I kid. There’s too many prepositions to nearly define that. There’s multiple things to define there.

Yes, but the point is, it’s society, other humans, doing the defining. You see this in stupid facebook memes. "Do you know there a japanese word for staying up late doing stupid stuff instead of going to bed: “Revenge Bedtime Procrastination”. And whether or not this is true or not, words are ideas that are based on reality and perception. Like Klingons don’t have a word for “peace” or “laugh” or whatever it is. Different cultures prioritize and define different things.

[GardenStateCane]

@thre305ive

This is, in fact, my entire point. Your moral beliefs are based on the foundation of Christianity. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But this isn’t the only worldview by far.

This is fair but only because we haven’t gotten into the arguments for God’s existence. I think there are at least 5 arguments that build on one another that any reasonable person would conclude that it’s more likely that God exists than not (there is no way to prove an immaterial, transcendent being).

@thre305ive

I mean YOU. Or humanity. It’s clear we all think we’re pretty special. I’m definitely not talking about flies and viruses.

But doesn’t this beg the question why human life is valuable but cow, fly or bacterial life is not?

@thre305ive

Not at all. I don’t believe there is a such thing as objective morality.

And this is my point come full circle with you. Then you have no ability to ask for justice when someone seriously injures you or your family.

I know you “can” (able to) via the legs system but I’m making the point that it would be inconsistent with your beliefs to do so.

[djrion]

@Warden84

It’s sad that overly fundamental religious folk, like yourself, derive morality FROM your book. Of course, a simple read of your book shows the source to be one of the most immoral to ever be committed to paper. It allows folks like your to act in an inevitably immoral way and try to justify it by citing your book decides what is moral and what isn’t. History is plagued with men, like yourself, who derive their morality from their religious beliefs and use it to justify wholly immoral acts.

This is my issue as well. I mean a few paragraphs up from this in gsc response was probably one of the most grotesque things I’ve ever read. He basically said, I’m an asshat and can continue to be an asshat BC I know I will be forgiven.

ONLY THE WEAK NEED TO DERIVE MORTALITY FROM AN OUTER SOURCE LIKE RELIGION.

[djrion]

@GardenStateCane

In order to have morality you must have a transcendent being who defines what’s moral and holds men to account.

Crock

Of

Shit

I’ll repeat:

ONLY THE WEAK NEED TO DERIVE MORTALITY FROM AN OUTER SOURCE LIKE RELIGION.

[thre305ive]

@GardenStateCane

This is fair but only because we haven’t gotten into the arguments for God’s existence.

Well I’m not even denying his existence. The problem with what you’re saying is that there are many religions, even multiple ones with the same God (or overlap). And those religions have different sets of morals. So you’d not only need to prove God exists, which is impossible, but you’d need to prove that the specific religion you chose is the objectively correct one.

In the end, it comes down to FAITH, which is BELIEF.

@GardenStateCane

But doesn’t this beg the question why human life is valuable but cow, fly or bacterial life is not?

It does, and this is something humankind has pondered ever since we could think. There are many possible answers, including theological and biological.

@GardenStateCane

Then you have no ability to ask for justice when someone seriously injures you or your family.

This isn’t true at all. It turns out that much of my objective morality overlaps with my community’s. I live in a country where murder is wrong. Nearly every single person I see day to day would agree with me. If someone commits murder, I have the community on my side.

THAT SAID, you are correct that this isn’t a perfect situation. For example, perhaps the government believes it is right to impose an inheritance tax on me, and suppose I don’t believe that is moral. We’re in a disagreement there, and they’re the ones with the power. So in that case, you are correct, I have no ability to ask for justice on that note… I will not get it.

It seems like my worldview really does explain the world, no?

@GardenStateCane

but I’m making the point that it would be inconsistent with your beliefs to do so.

it’s not inconsistent with my belief to hold someone accountable even if they don’t believe they did anything wrong. What’s important is what I believe.

Someone might steal from me and believe it’s no big deal. Trust me, I believe it’s a big deal, and they will get what’s coming to them.

We each act on our beliefs. There’s nothing inconsistent about that.